Arrgh… I’ve borked the Quad!
I downloaded and installed the latest update from the miniDSO site. Now Channels A and B no longer show and the device is recognised as a USB device.
Not sure what to do now, but I guess I need to know how to reinstall the bootloader.
You mean you can’t downgrade either? If the firmware boots it must be functional? How can it be the bootloader’s fault if the firmware does not show channel A and B?
Not being able to use the USB… So I cant reprogram… Is that not a bootloader function?
Oh I should also mention. If I try and start the device with play held down I get the error…
“File error 04 Offset: 00008009”
OK I have managed to debork the Quad… well sort of!
I discovered that the selectors marked <…> is a three way button… Left, right and it has a push down function as well. Holding it down while starting the device puts the quad into USB only… Happy days I can access my usb drive.
I then managed to reinstall the 0118 fpga and sys files.
I still got the error message when trying to install the app file.
Out of desperation, formatted the USB disk via windows and tried again. This time the APP file installed.
I have a functioning device again but with one problem…
Each time I start it it asks for an Enhance Licence. I can skip past this, but it tells me I am going into Enhance Version Demo with a decreasing count it started at 250. Guess that I am going to loose some function of the quad at some point unless I can get hold of the licence code.
On reflection, when it was borked, it did say “basic hardware version” I did not think anything of it at the time, but checking back to video I took of the device it was supplied saying enhance hardware version on the splash screen.
Ok. Guessing game here.
on the usb drive there is possibly a key file that somehow got corrupted when I was updating the firmware. In it is holds a registration key that allows access to some of the software features. (guess is that this is not as opensource as we might think)
By formatting the drive presumably I have removed the corrupted hidden file but at the same time have now limited the function of the device. When my countdown reaches 0 on the Enhance Demo I will no doubt find out.
So Seeed, how do I go about getting my licence key?
Seeed wrote something about this in the past (can’t recall where) and when reading it I envisioned the idea came from Apple and its App store for 3rd party extensions. Surely, the Quad will not be compatible with Iphone App’s, but a similar licensing scheme for extensions is a possibility.
Thanks for your contributions to this thread and your in-depth review of the engineering sample. When reading your review I ended up with two questions on my notepad. One was a reference to a “sliding” battery cover and the other was your mention of the C and D logic channels having a low sample rate. In terms of the sliding battery cover, I assume you refer to the possibility to remove the back cover (pry apart)? What about logic channels, is anything published in terms of sample rate for these channels?
I don’t remember seeing anything about extensions…I will have a look around the blog to see if I can find anything.
The sliding battery cover is just that. No need to unscrew anything, it slides sideways instead.
In terms of the lower sampling rate… I will try and find where Seeed explicitly said this, but the recent blog post they made about overclocking the Analogue to digital converter discusses a 2 channel device… ergo the sampling is being done through different hardware and hence will likely have a different sampling rate
The specs say 30S/s – 72MS/s so I deduce that the 30S/s is the digital channels, the 72MS/s is definately analog.
I thought you were getting a Quad Ben?
Thanks!
Yes I have one, but I never realized (or forgot after assembling it) the back cover would slide away until I just tried now.
As for the sampling rate, I would think this applies to analog only as a range. This is similar to what we do with the Nano (and DSO’s in general) where sampling rate is adjusted to match your choice of T/Div. For the Nano, 1Msa/s is only used from 1us/Div to 20us/Div and at 10s/Div, sampling rate is as low as 2.5Sa/s.
What I referred to is actually in the first post from ESP in this very thread.
I really hope they are not going the proprietary road with this 
I’m quite sure I will not buy something which is heavily restricted with licenses and closed source.
Btw why should seeed have their own apps format? Wouldn’t it be better to run a light weight android version on the DSO and write a oscilloscope app for it? Maybe to processor is to slow or ram is not enough? But that would be damn cool, download any android app to it. I think another good advantage of using android is that it already has the UI framework and it would be much easier to write the oscilloscope UI that looks nice and android theme like 
The developers can focus more on functions than low level graphics code.
Reading the first post again I see what you mean…
However the way that I read it, comparing the licensing to the Apple marketplace is probably a bit of a red herring. I dont think that they are talking about licensed extensions, but more a mechanism for a developer to licence their own full firmware for the device.
For instance a talented developer, going by the name of BenF for instance (BenF in this instance is a fictional character, any resemblance in name or character to real individuals alive or dead is purely coincidence) might decide that they want to create their own firmware for the Quad. Assuming that they have a key generator (possibly purchased? Seeed?) they can create a secure version of their firmware.
I assume that this would mean that they could command a revenue for their work either by licensing to individuals directly or by closing a deal with a supplier (Seeed?) I guess even if the developer wished to give the software away, this could be used to restrict it’s distribution from companies that the talented developer wished to see prosper as opposed to those who’s business ethic for instance jarred with the developers own values.
In some ways this could be a good thing, though if it is as easy to loose your key as I have found it, the system has a small flaw. Easy to fix with either transmission of the key to customers, or a web mechanism for those that need to retrieve it.
I remember apple had a period where reinstall equaled buy again. If you wanted to reinstall the computer or just quicktime you had to buy quicktime pro again. Don’t think it is like this today but I got flashbacks when this appeard Apple is evil. Don’t like MS either but I think they have a more sane look at their customers. Apple is fighting hard with swedish ensurance companies and customer rights organisations right now since apple decided to not repair any iPhones which had been exposed to sub zero temperatures. It has been sub zero since begining of december in sweden by now. My HTC had no problems with -25C. How sane can it be to sell such a product in sweden then? Apple…
That may be so (as the Quad lacks an OS to support loading extensions), but referring to this as a red herring on my part is unfair. What I have submitted is completely free, no money involved and no strings attached whatsoever.
Ben…
I really hope what I have said has not offended you (though I fear it might have).
I do not mean that I feel that you have a hidden motive, not in a million years do I think that!
I only mentioned your name, partly in humour, but more as you are the only independent developer that I can think of. I suggested several different scenarios how the system might help out developers, two of which involve re-numeration for their work, one not but protects their work against misuse. I really didn’t mean to attach a motive to all the good work that you have done.
Sincerely:
I don’t think that you had any part in the decision to licence this way
I don’t think that the no doubt countless hours that you put in to improving the Nano was in the hope of re-numeration
If the licence arrangement benefits you in any way I think that this is to the positive, many people have benefited from your work, while you might not have sought it, you are due a huge thankyou.
I completely apologise to you for any offence caused, I have expressed my thoughts badly and I can see how what I said could have been taken the wrong way. I hope you this post goes some way to smoothing the waters
I actually enjoyed reading your post and there is no reason to apologize for anything, but I still thought it appropriate to point out that these are your speculations and in no way does it reflect my intentions. No hard feelings!
Keep in mind also that this scheme can work in several ways. As it is now a developer may not be able to even run his own creation unless he has prior approval (license) from Seeed subject to whatever terms they see fit. This is in contrast to the Nano where a developer might create his own licensing scheme (including key generator) and assume full control without any interaction with Seeed whatsoever.
As you pointed out, licensing may not be such a bad thing if used in a sensible way. In this respect I have no reason to believe it will be used in any other way. Quite the contrary, I would say Seeed has been more than willing to listen to and encourage customer input such as with hosting and supporting this forum. With this and their hardware design skills I’m impressed, but less so with their ability to develop quality software.
I got my Quad today; Thank You SeeedStudio! It does have the power switch slider, the silkscreen is still wrong and the firmware is Sys v102 = 1229_sys.hex and App v201 = 0106_app.hex.
Attached is a listing of my virgin Quad USB files. I renamed the 1229_sys.hex file to 1229_sys.xeh and rebooted the Quad and it came up properly. I just wanted to make sure that file was not used as a license; it appears not to be necessary. I even tried to boot the reloader and it simply reported that no update files were found.
Nice find on that pressing the arrowed slider for USB only!
Turning on my virgin Quad with no buttons pressed reports “enhanced hardware version” same as the power up with “s”, “m”, and 'F" buttons pressed. Of course the button power on’s are dead with no app present.
Since we are all guessing, my educated guess is that the 0118_app.hex update forgot to provide or forgot to match the associated license for that app version of install. Another guess would be that for some reason your 0118 update got into one of the button memory slots instead of the default memory slot.
You might roll back and try the 1229_sys.hex and the 0106_app.hex to see if that fixes it. You could then try 0115_app.hex and let us know what happens. This of course assumes that the 0118_FPGA.bin upgrade has no impact upon the original factory firmware.
Does anyone know where to find the original xxxx_FPGA.bin file?
As for the attachment below, my system does display hidden files and system files so I suspect that there are no hidden files; but there is always the possibility of a table entry in the volume partition that would not show here.
I just loaded 0115_app.hex without incident. Then I loaded 0118_app.hex by itself and all appears normal. I went back and forth reloading these two versions without incident. I have not attempted to load 0118_sys.hex yet. One trick that I use is to rename the file extension .hex > .xeh so I can keep the file on the USB drive and go back to it later if needed. Only rename to .hex for the upgrade that you want to load. The reason that I reverse the file extension characters is so I don’t have to remember what it used to be. Just reverse again to get back.
The file save is fixed for BMP and the “m” key now saves the current configuration (screen reports “save current settings” unless you have “savefile” displayed). Even with “savefile” displayed, it still saves the config but doesn’t report it. The screen brightness, sound vol, and increased capture buffer scroll speed works in both updates. There must be something else changed in 0118 that I haven’t noticed yet, or it needs 0118_sys.hex to show those displayed changes, or they are non-visible fixes.
I created a dummy .dat file and saved a .dat file. Does anyone know what format this is? What program can view it? It is the same size as the .BMP files so it must be some variation of screen capture.
After using this for a few hours I have another suggestion … another suggestion … another suggestion … sorry, the flashing got to me! 
Those flashing cursor positions get to be quite irritating. Why not just use the black background for the selected item (without the flash). This way the color is still present on the text for that channel and the absence of background draws your eyes to the correct cursor position without the flashing. I understand that the color background makes the text easier to read, but that incessant flashing may lead to a seizure … a seizure … a seizure.
Now if we can just get BenF’s capture buffer fixes and the ability to save the capture buffer, then the Quad would be usable although not as user friendly as the BenF firmware has become.
More info to add for those that are interested. These results were found using 0118_app.hex update only with the original 1229_sys.hex from the factory. Because of justblair’s negative experience in previous post, I am holding off on the 0118_sys.hex and 0118_FPGA.bin updates.
Channels A & B can simultaneously display 3.546Mhz square waves (which is 10% of the Max sample rate of 36MS/s) with reasonable shape. This indicates that the 36MS/s is not divided while using channels A & B simultaneously. Hiding channel B appears to have no effect on the displayed sample rate resolution of channel A.
It appears that the Quad has 3-each range scales for each channel A & B. This was determined by noting that the frequency compensation for .2 & 2 were different than .5 & 5 and different from 1 & 10 V/Div scales. There are also six adjustable trimmer caps under the battery that could be frequency compensation for each range. These range compensation differences were observed while looking at a 3.546Mhz square wave signal. At the risk of being wrong, it appears to be reasonable to conclude that the same range scales will be used for the 20mv, 50mv, and 100mv respectively when the opto coupler is installed. Further conjecture would be that the opto will merely bypass or add a gain adjustment resistor for each of those ranges.
Signal generator square wave output is firmware unlimited but only reasonable up to 200Khz. The sine, saw & triangle waves are firmware limited to 20Khz or less and reasonable with 1.4us steps observed. The output square wave frequency up to 8Mhz appears to be accurate in frequency using the Tektronix scope as reference, but the square wave appearance is long gone.
Chanel D is where the math functions [+/-] for A & B can be displayed. It can also display logic functions [and/or] using channels C & D. It also appears to have File_1 thru File_4 display capabilities but I have found nothing published on this topic. I have tested the A & B math functions and they appear to be normal. Have not tested the TTL logic math nor the C & D channels at this time.
The XPos has a peculiar slow down rate only as you approach the default position.
The time cursors measure 282ns (3.546Mhz) while my Tektronix measures 301ns (3.318Mhz).
One thing still missing is the ability to display measured frequency (must calculate using T1 & T2).
0118 hex and fpga worked absolutely fine for me. There is a later update that didn’t go so well. I did not post the files here but I linked to the forum post on the miniDSO I think…
Firmware Update — FPGA_2 .22-SYS. V1.2-APP.V2.1, this one went pear shaped for me!
You say opto? I have only seen this listed as “opt”. It’s most likely short for optional.
I got this working… If you save the waveform as a DAT file and then load it back selecting File_1 superimposes the Channel A waveform from the saved file… File_2 Channel B and so on… I uploaded file templates on page 2, about halfway down which need to be loaded onto your quad…
Just to clear the air, the above quote from ESP is opto-coupler. These come in two basic package formats. One is called a CMOS analog switch, and the other style just has an input diode and output transistor for each stage. In both cases optical coupling is used to isolate the controlling signals from the switched signal. I suspect they are having a supplier/vendor problem with this part.
Thanks for this information. It sounds as if the file is superimposed upon the channel and that is why I didn’t see any change. I will try again and change the T/Div after the save and before the reload.
One more suggestion concerns the menu sequencing. As the menu falls down the right side of the screen, it would be less confusing if the “delta-V” and “delta-T” items were at the bottom of this right panel list. Then you should have the T1-T-2 choices scrolled next, and then have the “Save File” sequence next for the arrows jog switch. Then scroll back up to Channel-A. This would eliminate all that unnecessary jumping around of the display as the menus are scrolled through.
One other possible fix is to color “delta-T”. “T1”, and “T2” orange (not white) to reflect timebase association.
Due to cost and difficulty, we are not doing Android compatible version in the near future. How about a Bluetooth DSO for Android devices?