DSO Quad suggestion and bugs.

Products & Technology DSO Quad
#1

The DSO Quad HWv2.6 has been released for about 1 month. maybe you have any suggestions and advises to seeedstudio now, ok, now, please write down your feelings here, we will collect and try to improve .
problems :

  1. Calibration problem. yes, this problem puzzled me also. we will invite the Quad firmware designer to demonstrate this problem clearly before next week. please wait with patience .
  2. The bandwidth problem. DSO Quad have a bandwith of about 5M. please ref the viewtopic.php?f=22&t=1944
  3. battery problem. the connector of battery maybe reverted. and needs little modification before you using it. please ref :http://www.seeedstudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=1911
  4. digital probles and BNC to MCX converters . we are preparing these item now. and it will be ready soon.we will notify you to get you digital probles as you have coupon within the Quad package.

edit 2011/5/23: the BNC to MCX converter has been ready:
seeedstudio.com/depot/bnc-to … th=178_181
edit 2011/6/1: the digital probe for DSO Quad has been ready:
seeedstudio.com/depot/digita … 2b10794cd7
edit 2011/6/6: the X10 probe:
seeedstudio.com/depot/mcx-pr … th=178_180
Suggestions:
1… duty cycle on the waveform generator.
2… A sensible trace capture format that can be exported to PC.
3… The function of the 2 rockers needs to be updated and some functions like adjusting the Vertical Sensitivity and the Horizontal Timebase needs to be as easy as possible to get to .
4… button hard to push/slide
5… measurement unstable, depending on the V/Div and T/Div
6… Automatic ground level calibration and manual gain calibration for all input ranges
7… Files and directories will be created by the DSO Nano as needed without having to preload template files
8… Is the threshold of trigger C/D essential?
9… functions of measure freq,period,pulse and duty.
10… can not capture pulse like “5v 1mS pulse repeated once per second” in single mode(when hold, there is no pulse in the screen),and in normal mode , The Quad seems to hold it only for a half second or so, and then disappear.
11… when on ranges of 2uS up to 0.1uS, the interlace sample error.for example, 200k square wave , t/div 2us, the CH-A will be error when the CH-A is hidden
12… Can not save the seting by app2.43 and sys1.41
13… autoscale will be welcome
14… A zero line should be added to .CSV file
15… in .CSV,have no indication as to the sample rate and so cannot determine the time line for plotting this data ,have no trigger value/type/offset.

please state you suggestions precisely here . what do you want seeedstuido to do, and what do you think the Quad needs to improve or how to improve.

#2

OK a few things from me

On the firmware :

  1. I would like to see a duty cycle on the waveform generator.
  2. A sensible trace capture export format would be useful. There are at least 2 PC clients out here by myself and reinderien. It would be good to have a format that we could use to extent these clients to the quad.
  3. extend the size of the grid by allowing the user to slide the right hand readout off the screen and back again when needed.
  4. an I2C/SPI/UART decoder on the Logic inputs would be good. This already exists in my PC client, but until the export format is sorted out this is, unfortunately, redundant.

I am sure that if any help or suggestions to the format of the export file are needed then both reinderien and I would be happy to offer them.

The UI feels a little awkward at times and it is easy to get lost in the menus with some of the sub menu items at the top and then flipping to the bottom of the screen. It may just be a case of groupings. I am not sure how this can be resolved, but with practise it becomes easier. It is just not intuitive.

On the hardware :

I feel that things like the MCX to BNC connectors and the digital probes are minor if the firmware stops the unit being used through faults or failing design. After all both of these items are (as I have demonstrated in another post) already easily available on the internet elsewhere.

Cheers Pete.

#3

To bainesbunch:
thank you . I have put your suggestion to the 1st floor of the post,please help to check if i get your mean precisly.

i think the firmware already support this function. it is the submenu of the sync.mode.

Maybe it is diffcult to realize this function on the Quad, i think now the best way to realize this function is export all the data to PC ,and then decode all the data. so , the 2nd suggerstion is important. :slight_smile:

#4

Sorry to say that the quad is simply unusable because the measurement result depends on Volt/div and Time base.

I tested it with a 9-volt battery but I got different Vdc values under different voltage/time scales (None of them give me the correct 9V value)!

More, when both channel A and B are used to measure AC signal, only 1 of the channels display the result while another just get 0 volts…

I suggest your team should correct these vital bugs before trying to add other new functions…

#5

I propose :
the ability to move the trigger point everywhere in the capture buffer
a time delay after the trigger fires to start sampling
a view of the full buffer on the screen

Is it really that difficult to realize. There are tons of code emulating I2C/SPI/UART on many tiny 8bits microcontrolers. I think it could be done with an Arm

#6

You have understood my meaning well, thank you.

What Sub menu Sync.mode and how do I get to it. I thought I had explored all the menu options but I can’t find this one so it must be well hidden :slight_smile:

Please explain where it is so that I can have a “Play” with it.

Cheers Pete

#7

That adjustment is in the lower right hand corner and is labeled “XPOS” Just menu down to there (orange menu choices on engineering model) and use the jog slider to move the trigger position on the display.

I haven’t tried this yet, but you may also be able to halt the scope and then slide the display across the capture buffer using the XPOS control.

#8

Aha I see I have not described myself well enough. What I would like to see is all the cursor information slide off to the right of the display area giving us a larger signal grid and therefore the ability to see a larger part of the captured buffer at the same time, we loose almost 20% of the available grid space by having the cursor information showing at all times.

Cheers Pete.

#9

I absolutely agree that a good export/import file system is needed. BenF has demonstrated the success in using the XML file format. The existing Quad file format has been measured and found lacking. BenF in V3.61 even allows the reference waveform to be in XML format. This XML format is an amazing improvement for the users and it is time for Bure to address this and other user issues, if he wants the Quad to be successful as a product.

#10

5/20/1011 Update: BenF recently released v3.62.

I really feel that this thread is a joke and will never be productive. Non the less, I will still apply my two cents here.

Most people are complaining about the Menu system (myself included) but that is not the essence here. Making the Quad work properly as an oscilloscope with it’s current menu system is job one. You can never please everyone with a Menu system, but you can make the existing product functional; please note that it is not functional in it’s present firmware state. It is now only a prototype toy.

If Bure and/or his associates want to limit the Quad to an engineering toy, then he/they should continue to ignore all the improvements that BenF has already made to the DSO Nano. The Quad product prototype phase appears to be over (when the ADC interleave is fixed) and it is time for Bure to respond to user requests that have already been filtered for reasonableness and implemented by BenF. Each and every one of those improvements by BenF has made the Nano a very useful, desirable, and professional tool. It is unfortunate that those with Quads only, can not see the amazing results of the DSO Nano firmware improvements in BenFs v3.61 release.

Bottom line, Bure and/or associates; it is time to stop thinking prototype toy and instead switch to usability. You were fortunate that BenF covered for you and fixed the DSO Nano for you while you were elsewhere engineering the Quad, but that will most likely not happen on this go-around for several reasons, not the least being the non-release of the FPGA source code.

Just to clear the air on this topic, listed below is BenF’s latest Revisions.txt file which clearly shows what features are desired by the Forum users. This is a clear road map of what issues need to be addressed first (yes, a few items are not related, but most are) and if you would just incorporate these fixes, then your prototype toy would turn into a viable, useful and professional tool. It helps to read this list from bottom to the top.

For those who don’t know what some of these changes mean (Bure and/or associates included) just download BenF’s V3.61 update and read the enclosed User’s Guide (isn’t that novel, a User’s Guide to explain the update features). It is time for Bure and/or his associates to either put out or sub-contract these types of changes or the Quad will surely die as an unusable tool.

BenF APP V3.61 - 2011.02.26

  • Invert duty cycle when using falling edge trigger
  • Add separate controls for buffer priority mode and fast/normal sampling speed
  • Adjust trigger position subject to buffer priority
  • Fix issue with FIT when in fast sampling mode
  • Add option to reset to factory defaults
  • Updated firmware users guide

BenF APP V3.60 - 2011.02.17

  • Support loading of XML files for primary and reference channel
  • Set DSO parameters on XML import (from XML profile section)
  • Add sampling rate to XML profile section
  • Support reference waveform resizing
  • Reference waveform increased from 300 points to 1024 points
  • Remove support for DAT reference files (replaced with XML)
  • Add fast sampling mode (10 times faster than standard mode)
  • Force fast sampling when in real-time scan mode
  • Add high/low pulse width measurement
  • Modified behavior and appearance of buffer position marker
  • Updated firmware users guide

BenF APP V3.52 - 2011.02.04

  • Tune precision to accuracy (reduce measurement fluctuations)
  • Change to use 6 range gain calibration (recalibration required)
  • Improved arithmetic precision across V/Div’s
  • Improved gain coherence across T/Div’s
  • Improved accuracy for Gnd Pos calibration
  • Display gain calibration as % of full range
  • Make saved reference waveform the active reference
  • Adjust GndPos in steps of 5
  • Display Gnd Pos level (-95 to +95)
  • Updated firmware users guide

BenF LIB V3.52 - 2011.02.03

  • Set power-on vertical bias offset to 50%
  • Adjust ADC prescaler

BenF APP V3.51 - 2011.01.25

  • Automatic ground level calibration
  • Allow off screen trigger level
  • Pressing B for Gnd Pos will reset position to vertical center
  • Updated firmware users guide

BenF APP V3.50 - 2011.01.20

  • Support waveform resizing (zoom in/out)
  • Add vertical scroll capability
  • Add under/over voltage indicator (V/Div turns red)
  • Fix issues with static display of waveforms when in SCAN mode
  • Increased numeric precision (XML val, Vpp, Vmin, Vmax, Vavg)
  • Updated firmware users guide

BenF APP V3.43 - 2011.01.09

  • Fix issue with inaccurate sample time interval for 2s/Div and 10s/Div
  • Adjusted logic for trigger icon coloring (always go red when trigger absent)
  • Updated firmware users guide

BenF APP V3.42 - 2011.01.02

  • Support SD card hot swap
  • Updated firmware users guide

BenF LIB V3.42 - 2011.01.02

  • Trigger external interrupt when SD card inserted

BenF APP V3.41 - 2010.12.23

  • Support loading (profile, waveform) from arbitrary named files
  • Allow sensitivity lines to remain visible when adjusting trigger level
  • Cancel FIT mode (change to AUTO) when manually adjusting V/Div, T/Div or trigger level
  • Updated ReadMe

BenF APP V3.40 - 2010.12.16

  • Increased max sampling rate from 857ks/s to 1Ms/s
  • Add measurement for pulse count (count of low-to-high transitions)
  • Reconfigure PA1 to analog-in if connected to PA0 (digital pullup conflict with PA0/Ain for V2 owners)
  • Adjusted levels for battery state (full >= 3.50, 3.50 > half >= 3.33, 3.33 > low >= 3.16 , empty < 3.16)
  • Calculate measurements in scan mode
  • Add support for XML export when in scan mode
  • Adjusted AUTO mode trigger timer (exclude pre-fetch time)
  • Adjusted red trigger icon coloring (when scanning for trigger only)
  • Reuse LIB stack memory segment in APP
  • Increased sampling depth from 3072 to 4098
  • Adjusted FIT mode T/Div sensititivity (prevent osscillation)
  • Updated ReadMe

BenF LIB V3.40 - 2010.12.11

  • Changed icons for edge triggers and delta

BenF APP V3.33 - 2010.12.11

  • Fix issue with calibrated gain not being restored after a power cycle

BenF APP V3.32 - 2010.12.01

  • Fix issue with gain not settable for some ranges
  • Fix issue with time cursor offset error
  • Swap left/right keys for T/Div and V/Div (change to waveform centric)
  • Adjust duty cycle subject to HW V1/V2 differences
  • Display detected HW version (V1 or V2) on startup screen

BenF APP V3.31 - 2010.11.30

  • Fix issue with unable to select 1MHz output frequency
  • Fix issue with AUTO trigger in post priority mode

BenF APP V3.30 - 2010.11.28

  • Use interpolated waveform drawing for narrow T/div’s (less equal 20us)
  • Documentation on FILExxx.DAT reference export/import format added to readme
  • Tuned FIT mode for faster response and more accurate scale selections
  • Made AC measurements (Vrms and Duty) calculations relative to Vavg
  • Trigger position preserved across V/Div and T/div changes
  • Support screen capture with measurements (select ME and press B or long M)
  • Support fine tuning of output frequency (3-digits, range 10Hz-1MHz)
  • Option to specify duty-cycle (PWM) for output frequency in 1% increments from fully-on to fully-off
  • Added support for full calibration (separate offset and gain for all ranges)
  • Added option to set sampling buffer usage priority (pre/post equal split or post priority)
  • Changed LIB/APP interface to use runtime function pointer resolve through interrupt vector
  • Changed to new extended profile format
  • Updated ReadMe

BenF LIB V3.30 - 2010.11.28

  • Changed LIB/APP interface to use runtime function pointer resolve through interrupt vector
  • Added APP detect with version control

BenF APP V3.21 - 2010.11.23

  • Fix issue with incorrect display of trigger position when T/div less equal 20us
  • Fix issue with incorrect “Write Err” message when saving profile and reference files

BenF APP V3.20 - 2010.11.21

  • Added support for SD directory and file creation (FAT16 and FAT32)
  • Removed template files from distribution (no longer needed)
  • Snapshots of the full DSO sampling buffer can be exported to XML files
  • Per category file limit extended from 255 to 999
  • File sequence numbers default to the highest number used plus one within each category
  • File load functions will limit choice of names to existing files only
  • File save functions will display existing file names with the color red
  • A progress indicator is displayed when saving bitmap images and Xml files
  • Option to configure grid light intensity (8 levels) added to menu group OT
  • Added low end 0.2V scale for 10x attenuation probes
  • Loss of trigger will show as red colored trigger indicator (top left rising/falling symbol)
  • Updated ReadMe

BenF LIB V3.02 - 2010.11.21

  • Add a verification/retry step to SD card initialization

BenF APP V3.12 - 2010.11.15

  • Fix issue with incorrect range calibration

BenF APP V3.11 - 2010.11.08

  • Fix issue with calibrate range displaying 0.x% for 10.x%

BenF APP V3.10 - 2010.11.08

  • Improved SD card compatibility
  • Support two point basic unit calibration
  • FI menu group will now default to Save Img
  • Readme and revision file added to distribution
  • Added template files to distribution
#11

I have to agree with Lygra on this subject, we are casting seed (no pun intended) on stony ground with our comments and suggestions.

I own a small hotel in the South of France and my clients have the opportunity to comment, on the internet, about their stay with us. We always listen to what they have to say and if possible try and improve our service to accommodate their comments. We depend of the comments of our clients to bring us future business.

The Quad like its predecessor, the nano, is designed around an “Open” concept and people like BenF have taken it, the Nano, and using their programming skills have turned it into a useful tool. Seeed would do well to learn from this lesson and take on board his, customer driven, changes.

Other people like myself are also developing support applications for the Nano and potentially the quad but are not being listened to.

There is a limit to how long your clients will wait for you to actually do something and despite the fact that this is an “open” development waiting for someone else to make your shoddy product into a useful tool is not the way forward. You have been shown how to do it right so what are you waiting for.

Finally I have to say if you paid for the current firmware you should, like I suspect a considerable number of your customers, be looking to get your money back.

Cheers Pete.

#12

Adding fuel to fire is probably not going to help much, but based on the Quad engineering sample I received and the lack of progress since, I say we’re currently as far away from a useful product as we could possibly be.

As I see it, current state is as follows:

  • 300 units sold as beta samples
  • A new batch of 300 release units are up for sale and starting to ship
  • The HW V2.6 analog input stage appears to be unstable
  • Analog bandwidth appears to be limited beyond design goals
  • Firmware upgrade is platform limited to Windows
  • Basic firmware functionality for acquisition and buffer management appears not to be working and can not be properly tested due to open hardware issues (or lack of correct calibration documentation at best)
  • Firmware support for digital channels appear to be neglected
  • User interface is (subjectively) a disaster
  • User opinion is shifting from initial enthusiasm to frustration and beyond
  • Seeed reputation is at jeopardy

Worse still is the apparent absence of any process whatsoever to collect bug reports and provide timely (daily) patches and feedback. Asking 300+ users to beta test without properly organizing and respond to input is a waste of resources at best and borders towards complete neglect.

Asking users to contribute with enhancement requests at this stage may serve a purpose in damage-control strategy, but is a complete waste of time otherwise. Seeed is already at the damage-control stage with this product and without a firm grip and control, may as well drop out and cut losses short.

Sorry to say, but that is how I see it.

#13

thanks, i get you meanings.To be honest, how to define and manipulate the manus is always a big problem to the design team…do you have a systematic suggestion for this?

#14

I have to say that if this was to happen then I would be looking to recover my investment and not be considering Seeed for any further purchases.

Cheers Pete.

#15

I’ll say we should give them some time. I’m sure we are not being ignored.

BenF: is the reason why you cannot rewrite the firmware like the nano because part of it (the low level stuff) is not open source?

#16

BenF recently released v3.62.

The following excerpt from BenF’s V3.61 more adequately describes the desired improvements as determined by BenF and Forum Users:

 Three phase sampling (pre-fetch, trigger-fetch, post-fetch) guaranteed never to miss infrequent events
 More efficient screen update (10-100 times faster than version 2.5e)
 Eliminate all flickering and stuck pixels
 Code is re-written to allow full compile time optimization (much faster and compact code all over)
 A number of overflow bugs have been fixed (calculations for large time/div settings)
 Scan has been replaced with a proper continues real-time scan mode
 Configuration profiles can be saved to and restored from SD card or flash memory (default power on settings).
 Waveforms can be saved to and restored from SD cards
 Screen capture can be saved to bitmap files on SD cards
 Snapshots of the full DSO sampling buffer can be exported to XML formatted files for further processing and analysis
 XML formatted files can be imported to both the primary channel and the reference channel
 Use oversampling and averaging to detect high frequency components on lower frequency waveforms
 A number of issues with incorrect SD card support and file handling in 2.5e have been fixed
 Files and directories will be created by the DSO Nano as needed without having to preload template files
 Automatic waveform tuning (FIT mode) can be selected with a dedicated key combination
 The full sampling buffer can be panned left right on the Nano display
 Control sampling buffer usage for pre or post trigger priority or fast sampling rate
 Waveform resizing and vertical scroll capability (zoom in on area of interest)
 A more relevant collection of information fields is selected for on screen display
 A more relevant selection of measurements
 Simultaneous view of all measurements
 Use common abbreviations and terminology
 A completely redesigned user interface (no annoying blinking or color abuse)
 Automatic ground level calibration and manual gain calibration for all input ranges
 User selectable grid light intensity level
 Fine tuning of output frequency to three digits
 Set duty cycle (PWM) of output frequency from fully-off to fully-on in 1% increments
 Single button quick select for frequently used functions

Although this list is extensive, this is what it takes to change a prototype toy into a viable and professional tool.

#17

Apparently source code has been released for app, sys and fpga:

ourdev.cn/bbs/bbs_content.jsp?bb … bs_id=3053

post # 1070

#18

I’ve created a forum thread with those files. I realize this is sort of a duplication, but I found it quite challenging to track down the referenced post, download and extract the files, and interpret the CHANGELOG.TXT – so hopefully this saves someone that work.

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=2021

#19

It seems to me that Bure going back to dfuse makes a lot more sense. Admit the mistake and move back to dfuse if possible (with the FPGA). If FPGA is a problem, why not load the FPGA code into the STM and then run the STM to stuff the FPGA. Then load the STM with what it needs. Dfuse v3.01 supports all operating systems and includes 64-bit machines.

#20

Hello Folks,

I am just starting to use my Quad for the first time as a tool to measure some I2C signals from sonar device. I am seeing a lot of flicker on the screen at 20usec/Div and the system only triggers about 1 time in 5 at 10usec/Div. I am using channels C/D for inputs. Channels A/B just gave me a badly slewed wave that was all but useless to read.

I was also wondering why there is a threshold on the trigger for C/D since they only show as logic 0/1 with a single Div difference. The only sensible trigger for these inputs it leading/falling edge. It gets confusing when you switch between trigger sources C/D only to find that the trigger level is set outside the signal level that you have no control over.

Since the inputs C/D have no signal processing like A/B I can only assume that the firmware is missing trigger events on these channels. I would be expecting to be able to see a 10 meg bandwidth at the very least on these inputs. Perhaps someone can look at the trigger logic for the digital inputs

Cheers Pete.