DSO203 GCC APP - Community Edition (2.51+SmTech1.8+Fixes)

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Re: DSO203 GCC APP - Community Edition (2.51+SmTech1.8+Fixes

Post by Wildcat » Sun Sep 13, 2015 3:17 pm

PLEASE NOTE that initial calibration (holding button 2 down while menu is on ChA or ChB) in Wildcat V4.4 MUST
be done while in normal buffer mode (single window or full buffer ) and NOT in one of the oversampling/summing
modes. This will be fixed in any future updates, but with version 4.4 attempting calibration while in OS modes
will fail. Note that there is no need to recalibrate if already calibrated with a previous version.

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Re: DSO203 GCC APP - Community Edition (2.51+SmTech1.8+Fixes

Post by roger4 » Sun Sep 20, 2015 3:01 pm

Hi, a follow up on DFU 3.45c
I was able following the the tutorial to update my HW 2.81 unit from DFU 3.40C to 3.45C.
This was complicated by the example of the recommended USB Serial module I purchased being faulty with a wandering serial clock causing writes to fail after 40 to 60kB.
Changing from DFU 3.40C to DFU 3.45C does not alter the issue of Win XP or Win 7 working reliably and Win 8, 8.1 and 10 being problematic on larger files like Wildcat 4.4 although this is also hardware dependent. Based on the reports of others some USB hardware seems to work reliably with Windows 8.1 or Windows 10 and other hardware (every computer I own) does not allow me to transfer larger files reliably except with Windows 7 and Windows XP. This does not seem to be related to the DFU version in use which looks to have been a red herring. I could not find any other issues with the hardware I have available specific to DFU 3.45C that were not present on 3.40C. OS X can see the DFU volume with DFU 3.45C but will not reliably transfer files. If you are taking apart your aluminium DSO Quad don't lose the power switch cover like I did and spend half a day searching for it.

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Inquiry about 3-slot version W4.4

Post by ThomasCaspari » Sun Sep 20, 2015 5:44 pm

...would it be possible to generate a 3-slot version loading into slot 2 that's still compatible with PAWN? For some reason I want to keep original app in slot 1 (I use the fourpack version PLUS A1 1.10 which completely fits into first slot), W4.4 in slot 2 and PAWN in slot 4 (HW 2.70, 2MB version, Sys 1.52, DFU v3.11C). Current 3-slot version works perfectly in slot 2 but overwrites PAWN on install...

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Re: DSO203 GCC APP - Community Edition (2.51+SmTech1.8+Fixes

Post by roger4 » Sun Sep 20, 2015 8:11 pm

You probably need to explain why you want to keep the original app in slot 1. It is in my view rubbish and the main reason people regard this device as a sad toy. I am struggling to think of any function the original app does as well as Wildcat 4.4 let alone better. The time taken to code for a request like this needs a better justification than "for some reason" and just in case or I kind of like are probably not valid either. If there is a worthwhile reason for having the original craplication available I am curious, otherwise there are a lot better uses for the space it would occupy. It is simpler to use because it does a lot less and badly but if that is a valid justification we should all keep Windows 3.1 on our boot selector just in case we hanker for the uncomplicated past.

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Re: DSO203 GCC APP - Community Edition (2.51+SmTech1.8+Fixes

Post by ThomasCaspari » Sun Sep 20, 2015 9:29 pm

@Roger: this was just a question. I don't think I need to justify this, but in fact I do not always need the high precision of Wildcat's version and in such cases prefer the more intuitive interface of the factory app. I've also been thinking about altering the factory app because I like the interface.

btw. currently I use W3.4 in slot 2 on my DSO203 which resides peacefully next to PAWN, but want W4.4 because of the new oversampling modes which greatly improve precision. The "Wildcat series" firmwares IMHO currently are in fact the best thing that could happen to the DSO203. Because I am not an experienced programmer, I cannot tell how difficult a relocation would be.

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Re: DSO203 GCC APP - Community Edition (2.51+SmTech1.8+Fixes

Post by roger4 » Sun Sep 20, 2015 11:42 pm

You are talking about a custom version of the package which would require ongoing effort to maintain in subsequent versions and would only work on the 8GB hardware. It would take development and testing time equivalent to multiple sets of hardware in value and complicate ongoing support. It could be done for sure but you could have a second DSO with an "intuitive" factory interface that does a lot less and less accurately for much less effort than it would take to code and support a custom version of 4.4 for you. I am not trying to offend you but intuitive is tough for something as complex as version 4.4 limited to the switches available.

In other projects like this having two different user interfaces increases the confusion and leads to unfair criticism of the more complex UI. Based on my experience if I just use the wildcat 4.4 UI after a while it becomes more intuitive and easier to navigate. Oscilloscope user interfaces have been an issue for decades with HP's digital models being designed like a piano with one key and a pitch control knob and affecting sales for almost a decade where people familiar with a knob for time and a knob for volts despised the new interface. (Which was a terrible design in my my view).

I would suggest try avoiding the factory app and immersing yourself in 4.4 for a while and it may well become more intuitive to use for you. If you want to see how far we have come have a look at the Apollo onboard computer user interface. It took literally months for it to become intuitive and printed instructions were normal for in flight use. The early shuttle interface was not a lot better. I have many different digital oscilloscopes with everything from touch screen to knob based designs. As the number of features increase all require use of the manual to work out how to do some things. The DSO is using a media player control set to run a complex oscilloscope so there is certainly a lot of compromise involved in the user interface but for a free product that turns it into a useable capable device I think it works really well.

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Re: DSO203 GCC APP - Community Edition (2.51+SmTech1.8+Fixes

Post by ThomasCaspari » Mon Sep 21, 2015 12:15 am

roger4 wrote:You are talking about a custom version of the package which would require ongoing effort to maintain in subsequent versions and would only work on the 8GB hardware.
Did I really miss the point so much? As far as I understood, compatibility with PAWN is a basic feature of the 4 slot version which is in fact a 5 slot version, at least to my understanding of Wildcat's explanations in this thread. Would it really be such hard work to also feature this in the 3 slot version for slot 2 which is included in the W4.4 archive anyway? (I don't need the high performance W4.4, as I mainly use the DSO203 to track down problems with model flight hardware)
I am not trying to offend you but intuitive is tough for something as complex as version 4.4 limited to the switches available.
This point is clear to me, undoubtedly making a complex thing intuitive is quite a challenge. I am not so much into oscilloscopes (DSO203 is my first and currently only one), but I am part of the linux world since 1993, there it's quite the same. First linux versions were nearly unusable for standard folks, this has changed later.
I would suggest try avoiding the factory app and immersing yourself in 4.4 for a while and it may well become more intuitive to use for you.
This would be an option. Another option (about which I currently don't know if it is an option at all) would be to enhance the UI in a way that some functions are not included by default, but provided as a plugin stored in binary form on the DSO's "internal USB drive". Would be a great thing, as codebase would decrease and the present issues with flashing to different hardware probably wouldn't exist anymore. I am thinking about learning myself to program DSO203 in order to include some of Wildcat's enhancements into the newer GUI. I've already played with the PAWN toolchain (that's why I want to keep PAWN), but that's really not the same as programming in C.

Did I get you right - you have been programming UIs for Apollo? I am not familiar to space flight, but that would really have been a great task...

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Re: DSO203 GCC APP - Community Edition (2.51+SmTech1.8+Fixes

Post by roger4 » Mon Sep 21, 2015 12:58 am

Most of the Apollo coding was done at MIT in the 60s and I was still in short pants. I worked in the 80s on some of that technology and found it really interesting how so much was done in so little code. If you are interested I can post some links.

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Re: DSO203 GCC APP - Community Edition (2.51+SmTech1.8+Fixes

Post by ThomasCaspari » Mon Sep 21, 2015 3:45 am

@roger: although slightly off-topic in this thread: sounds interesting, feel free to provide me those Apollo programming inks you wrote about.

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Re: DSO203 GCC APP - Community Edition (2.51+SmTech1.8+Fixes

Post by wagnermerle » Mon Sep 28, 2015 1:58 am

Some comments on my experience with the latest upgrades. I have hdwe V2.81 and upgraded the DFU to V3.45C and Sys to 1.64.
Hdwe V2.81
DFU V3.45C
Sys V1.64
FPGA V2.81

The upgrade solved all my Win8.1 issues interfacing with the Quad. I can load Wildcat V4.4 (424KB) with no issues at all.

Win 10 is another story. Disk access in normal startup mode works OK, DFU mode is not recognized at all.

Merle

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