DSO Quad suggestion and bugs.

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HugeMan
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DSO Quad suggestion and bugs.

Post by HugeMan » Tue May 10, 2011 3:12 pm

The DSO Quad HWv2.6 has been released for about 1 month. maybe you have any suggestions and advises to seeedstudio now, ok, now, please write down your feelings here, we will collect and try to improve .
problems :
1. Calibration problem. yes, this problem puzzled me also. we will invite the Quad firmware designer to demonstrate this problem clearly before next week. please wait with patience .
2. The bandwidth problem. DSO Quad have a bandwith of about 5M. please ref the http://www.seeedstudio.com/forum/viewto ... =22&t=1944
3. battery problem. the connector of battery maybe reverted. and needs little modification before you using it. please ref :http://www.seeedstudio.com/forum/viewto ... =22&t=1911
4. digital probles and BNC to MCX converters . we are preparing these item now. and it will be ready soon.we will notify you to get you digital probles as you have coupon within the Quad package.

edit 2011/5/23: the BNC to MCX converter has been ready:
http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/bnc-to ... th=178_181

edit 2011/6/1: the digital probe for DSO Quad has been ready:
http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/digita ... 2b10794cd7

edit 2011/6/6: the X10 probe:
http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/mcx-pr ... th=178_180

Suggestions:
1.. duty cycle on the waveform generator.
2.. A sensible trace capture format that can be exported to PC.
3.. The function of the 2 rockers needs to be updated and some functions like adjusting the Vertical Sensitivity and the Horizontal Timebase needs to be as easy as possible to get to .
4.. button hard to push/slide
5.. measurement unstable, depending on the V/Div and T/Div
6.. Automatic ground level calibration and manual gain calibration for all input ranges
7.. Files and directories will be created by the DSO Nano as needed without having to preload template files
8.. Is the threshold of trigger C/D essential?
9.. functions of measure freq,period,pulse and duty.
10.. can not capture pulse like "5v 1mS pulse repeated once per second" in single mode(when hold, there is no pulse in the screen),and in normal mode , The Quad seems to hold it only for a half second or so, and then disappear.
11.. when on ranges of 2uS up to 0.1uS, the interlace sample error.for example, 200k square wave , t/div 2us, the CH-A will be error when the CH-A is hidden
12.. Can not save the seting by app2.43 and sys1.41
13.. autoscale will be welcome
14.. A zero line should be added to .CSV file
15.. in .CSV,have no indication as to the sample rate and so cannot determine the time line for plotting this data ,have no trigger value/type/offset.

please state you suggestions precisely here . what do you want seeedstuido to do, and what do you think the Quad needs to improve or how to improve.

Bainesbunch
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Re: DSO Quad suggestion and bugs.

Post by Bainesbunch » Tue May 10, 2011 3:55 pm

OK a few things from me

On the firmware :

1) I would like to see a duty cycle on the waveform generator.
2) A sensible trace capture export format would be useful. There are at least 2 PC clients out here by myself and reinderien. It would be good to have a format that we could use to extent these clients to the quad.
3) extend the size of the grid by allowing the user to slide the right hand readout off the screen and back again when needed.
4) an I2C/SPI/UART decoder on the Logic inputs would be good. This already exists in my PC client, but until the export format is sorted out this is, unfortunately, redundant.

I am sure that if any help or suggestions to the format of the export file are needed then both reinderien and I would be happy to offer them.

The UI feels a little awkward at times and it is easy to get lost in the menus with some of the sub menu items at the top and then flipping to the bottom of the screen. It may just be a case of groupings. I am not sure how this can be resolved, but with practise it becomes easier. It is just not intuitive.


On the hardware :

I feel that things like the MCX to BNC connectors and the digital probes are minor if the firmware stops the unit being used through faults or failing design. After all both of these items are (as I have demonstrated in another post) already easily available on the internet elsewhere.


Cheers Pete.

HugeMan
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Re: DSO Quad suggestion and bugs.

Post by HugeMan » Fri May 13, 2011 8:58 am

To bainesbunch:
thank you . I have put your suggestion to the 1st floor of the post,please help to check if i get your mean precisly.
Bainesbunch wrote: 3) extend the size of the grid by allowing the user to slide the right hand readout off the screen and back again when needed.
i think the firmware already support this function. it is the submenu of the sync.mode.
Bainesbunch wrote: 4) an I2C/SPI/UART decoder on the Logic inputs would be good. This already exists in my PC client, but until the export format is sorted out this is, unfortunately, redundant..
Maybe it is diffcult to realize this function on the Quad, i think now the best way to realize this function is export all the data to PC ,and then decode all the data. so , the 2nd suggerstion is important. :)

speedrider
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Re: DSO Quad suggestion and bugs.

Post by speedrider » Fri May 13, 2011 1:23 pm

Sorry to say that the quad is simply unusable because the measurement result depends on Volt/div and Time base.

I tested it with a 9-volt battery but I got different Vdc values under different voltage/time scales (None of them give me the correct 9V value)!

More, when both channel A and B are used to measure AC signal, only 1 of the channels display the result while another just get 0 volts...

I suggest your team should correct these vital bugs before trying to add other new functions...

fdufnews
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Re: DSO Quad suggestion and bugs.

Post by fdufnews » Fri May 13, 2011 2:25 pm

I propose :
  • the ability to move the trigger point everywhere in the capture buffer
    a time delay after the trigger fires to start sampling
    a view of the full buffer on the screen
HugeMan wrote:
Bainesbunch wrote: 4) an I2C/SPI/UART decoder on the Logic inputs would be good. This already exists in my PC client, but until the export format is sorted out this is, unfortunately, redundant..
Maybe it is diffcult to realize this function on the Quad, i think now the best way to realize this function is export all the data to PC ,and then decode all the data. so , the 2nd suggerstion is important. :)
Is it really that difficult to realize. There are tons of code emulating I2C/SPI/UART on many tiny 8bits microcontrolers. I think it could be done with an Arm

Bainesbunch
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Re: DSO Quad suggestion and bugs.

Post by Bainesbunch » Fri May 13, 2011 4:07 pm

HugeMan wrote:To bainesbunch:
thank you . I have put your suggestion to the 1st floor of the post,please help to check if i get your mean precisly.
Bainesbunch wrote: 3) extend the size of the grid by allowing the user to slide the right hand readout off the screen and back again when needed.
i think the firmware already support this function. it is the submenu of the sync.mode.
You have understood my meaning well, thank you.

What Sub menu Sync.mode and how do I get to it. I thought I had explored all the menu options but I can't find this one so it must be well hidden :)

Please explain where it is so that I can have a "Play" with it.

Cheers Pete

lygra
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Re: DSO Quad suggestion and bugs.

Post by lygra » Fri May 13, 2011 9:44 pm

Bainesbunch wrote:What Sub menu Sync.mode and how do I get to it. I thought I had explored all the menu options but I can't find this one so it must be well hidden :) Please explain where it is so that I can have a "Play" with it. Cheers Pete
That adjustment is in the lower right hand corner and is labeled "XPOS" Just menu down to there (orange menu choices on engineering model) and use the jog slider to move the trigger position on the display.

I haven't tried this yet, but you may also be able to halt the scope and then slide the display across the capture buffer using the XPOS control.

Bainesbunch
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Re: DSO Quad suggestion and bugs.

Post by Bainesbunch » Fri May 13, 2011 11:37 pm

lygra wrote:
Bainesbunch wrote:What Sub menu Sync.mode and how do I get to it. I thought I had explored all the menu options but I can't find this one so it must be well hidden :) Please explain where it is so that I can have a "Play" with it. Cheers Pete
That adjustment is in the lower right hand corner and is labeled "XPOS" Just menu down to there (orange menu choices on engineering model) and use the jog slider to move the trigger position on the display.

I haven't tried this yet, but you may also be able to halt the scope and then slide the display across the capture buffer using the XPOS control.

Aha I see I have not described myself well enough. What I would like to see is all the cursor information slide off to the right of the display area giving us a larger signal grid and therefore the ability to see a larger part of the captured buffer at the same time, we loose almost 20% of the available grid space by having the cursor information showing at all times.


Cheers Pete.

lygra
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Re: DSO Quad suggestion and bugs.

Post by lygra » Sun May 15, 2011 7:54 am

Bainesbunch wrote:OK a few things from me ... 2) A sensible trace capture export format would be useful.
I absolutely agree that a good export/import file system is needed. BenF has demonstrated the success in using the XML file format. The existing Quad file format has been measured and found lacking. BenF in V3.61 even allows the reference waveform to be in XML format. This XML format is an amazing improvement for the users and it is time for Bure to address this and other user issues, if he wants the Quad to be successful as a product.

lygra
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Re: DSO Quad suggestion and bugs.

Post by lygra » Sun May 15, 2011 8:28 am

5/20/1011 Update: BenF recently released v3.62.

I really feel that this thread is a joke and will never be productive. Non the less, I will still apply my two cents here.

Most people are complaining about the Menu system (myself included) but that is not the essence here. Making the Quad work properly as an oscilloscope with it's current menu system is job one. You can never please everyone with a Menu system, but you can make the existing product functional; please note that it is not functional in it's present firmware state. It is now only a prototype toy.

If Bure and/or his associates want to limit the Quad to an engineering toy, then he/they should continue to ignore all the improvements that BenF has already made to the DSO Nano. The Quad product prototype phase appears to be over (when the ADC interleave is fixed) and it is time for Bure to respond to user requests that have already been filtered for reasonableness and implemented by BenF. Each and every one of those improvements by BenF has made the Nano a very useful, desirable, and professional tool. It is unfortunate that those with Quads only, can not see the amazing results of the DSO Nano firmware improvements in BenFs v3.61 release.

Bottom line, Bure and/or associates; it is time to stop thinking prototype toy and instead switch to usability. You were fortunate that BenF covered for you and fixed the DSO Nano for you while you were elsewhere engineering the Quad, but that will most likely not happen on this go-around for several reasons, not the least being the non-release of the FPGA source code.

Just to clear the air on this topic, listed below is BenF's latest Revisions.txt file which clearly shows what features are desired by the Forum users. This is a clear road map of what issues need to be addressed first (yes, a few items are not related, but most are) and if you would just incorporate these fixes, then your prototype toy would turn into a viable, useful and professional tool. It helps to read this list from bottom to the top.

For those who don't know what some of these changes mean (Bure and/or associates included) just download BenF's V3.61 update and read the enclosed User's Guide (isn't that novel, a User's Guide to explain the update features). It is time for Bure and/or his associates to either put out or sub-contract these types of changes or the Quad will surely die as an unusable tool.
  • BenF APP V3.61 - 2011.02.26
    * Invert duty cycle when using falling edge trigger
    * Add separate controls for buffer priority mode and fast/normal sampling speed
    * Adjust trigger position subject to buffer priority
    * Fix issue with FIT when in fast sampling mode
    * Add option to reset to factory defaults
    * Updated firmware users guide

    BenF APP V3.60 - 2011.02.17
    * Support loading of XML files for primary and reference channel
    * Set DSO parameters on XML import (from XML profile section)
    * Add sampling rate to XML profile section
    * Support reference waveform resizing
    * Reference waveform increased from 300 points to 1024 points
    * Remove support for DAT reference files (replaced with XML)
    * Add fast sampling mode (10 times faster than standard mode)
    * Force fast sampling when in real-time scan mode
    * Add high/low pulse width measurement
    * Modified behavior and appearance of buffer position marker
    * Updated firmware users guide

    BenF APP V3.52 - 2011.02.04
    * Tune precision to accuracy (reduce measurement fluctuations)
    * Change to use 6 range gain calibration (recalibration required)
    * Improved arithmetic precision across V/Div's
    * Improved gain coherence across T/Div's
    * Improved accuracy for Gnd Pos calibration
    * Display gain calibration as % of full range
    * Make saved reference waveform the active reference
    * Adjust GndPos in steps of 5
    * Display Gnd Pos level (-95 to +95)
    * Updated firmware users guide

    BenF LIB V3.52 - 2011.02.03
    * Set power-on vertical bias offset to 50%
    * Adjust ADC prescaler

    BenF APP V3.51 - 2011.01.25
    * Automatic ground level calibration
    * Allow off screen trigger level
    * Pressing B for Gnd Pos will reset position to vertical center
    * Updated firmware users guide

    BenF APP V3.50 - 2011.01.20
    * Support waveform resizing (zoom in/out)
    * Add vertical scroll capability
    * Add under/over voltage indicator (V/Div turns red)
    * Fix issues with static display of waveforms when in SCAN mode
    * Increased numeric precision (XML val, Vpp, Vmin, Vmax, Vavg)
    * Updated firmware users guide

    BenF APP V3.43 - 2011.01.09
    * Fix issue with inaccurate sample time interval for 2s/Div and 10s/Div
    * Adjusted logic for trigger icon coloring (always go red when trigger absent)
    * Updated firmware users guide

    BenF APP V3.42 - 2011.01.02
    * Support SD card hot swap
    * Updated firmware users guide

    BenF LIB V3.42 - 2011.01.02
    * Trigger external interrupt when SD card inserted

    BenF APP V3.41 - 2010.12.23
    * Support loading (profile, waveform) from arbitrary named files
    * Allow sensitivity lines to remain visible when adjusting trigger level
    * Cancel FIT mode (change to AUTO) when manually adjusting V/Div, T/Div or trigger level
    * Updated ReadMe

    BenF APP V3.40 - 2010.12.16
    * Increased max sampling rate from 857ks/s to 1Ms/s
    * Add measurement for pulse count (count of low-to-high transitions)
    * Reconfigure PA1 to analog-in if connected to PA0 (digital pullup conflict with PA0/Ain for V2 owners)
    * Adjusted levels for battery state (full >= 3.50, 3.50 > half >= 3.33, 3.33 > low >= 3.16 , empty < 3.16)
    * Calculate measurements in scan mode
    * Add support for XML export when in scan mode
    * Adjusted AUTO mode trigger timer (exclude pre-fetch time)
    * Adjusted red trigger icon coloring (when scanning for trigger only)
    * Reuse LIB stack memory segment in APP
    * Increased sampling depth from 3072 to 4098
    * Adjusted FIT mode T/Div sensititivity (prevent osscillation)
    * Updated ReadMe

    BenF LIB V3.40 - 2010.12.11
    * Changed icons for edge triggers and delta

    BenF APP V3.33 - 2010.12.11
    * Fix issue with calibrated gain not being restored after a power cycle

    BenF APP V3.32 - 2010.12.01
    * Fix issue with gain not settable for some ranges
    * Fix issue with time cursor offset error
    * Swap left/right keys for T/Div and V/Div (change to waveform centric)
    * Adjust duty cycle subject to HW V1/V2 differences
    * Display detected HW version (V1 or V2) on startup screen

    BenF APP V3.31 - 2010.11.30
    * Fix issue with unable to select 1MHz output frequency
    * Fix issue with AUTO trigger in post priority mode

    BenF APP V3.30 - 2010.11.28
    * Use interpolated waveform drawing for narrow T/div's (less equal 20us)
    * Documentation on FILExxx.DAT reference export/import format added to readme
    * Tuned FIT mode for faster response and more accurate scale selections
    * Made AC measurements (Vrms and Duty) calculations relative to Vavg
    * Trigger position preserved across V/Div and T/div changes
    * Support screen capture with measurements (select ME and press B or long M)
    * Support fine tuning of output frequency (3-digits, range 10Hz-1MHz)
    * Option to specify duty-cycle (PWM) for output frequency in 1% increments from fully-on to fully-off
    * Added support for full calibration (separate offset and gain for all ranges)
    * Added option to set sampling buffer usage priority (pre/post equal split or post priority)
    * Changed LIB/APP interface to use runtime function pointer resolve through interrupt vector
    * Changed to new extended profile format
    * Updated ReadMe

    BenF LIB V3.30 - 2010.11.28
    * Changed LIB/APP interface to use runtime function pointer resolve through interrupt vector
    * Added APP detect with version control

    BenF APP V3.21 - 2010.11.23
    * Fix issue with incorrect display of trigger position when T/div less equal 20us
    * Fix issue with incorrect "Write Err" message when saving profile and reference files

    BenF APP V3.20 - 2010.11.21
    * Added support for SD directory and file creation (FAT16 and FAT32)
    * Removed template files from distribution (no longer needed)
    * Snapshots of the full DSO sampling buffer can be exported to XML files
    * Per category file limit extended from 255 to 999
    * File sequence numbers default to the highest number used plus one within each category
    * File load functions will limit choice of names to existing files only
    * File save functions will display existing file names with the color red
    * A progress indicator is displayed when saving bitmap images and Xml files
    * Option to configure grid light intensity (8 levels) added to menu group OT
    * Added low end 0.2V scale for 10x attenuation probes
    * Loss of trigger will show as red colored trigger indicator (top left rising/falling symbol)
    * Updated ReadMe

    BenF LIB V3.02 - 2010.11.21
    * Add a verification/retry step to SD card initialization

    BenF APP V3.12 - 2010.11.15
    * Fix issue with incorrect range calibration

    BenF APP V3.11 - 2010.11.08
    * Fix issue with calibrate range displaying 0.x% for 10.x%

    BenF APP V3.10 - 2010.11.08

    * Improved SD card compatibility
    * Support two point basic unit calibration
    * FI menu group will now default to Save Img
    * Readme and revision file added to distribution
    * Added template files to distribution
Last edited by lygra on Fri May 20, 2011 9:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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